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Episodes
Sunday Nov 03, 2024
Sunday Nov 03, 2024
IMAGERomanuspontifex, CC BY-SA 2.0 https://creativecommons.org/licenses/by-sa/2.0, via Wikimedia CommonsLINKS
Luis Gerardo CABRERA HERRERA on Catholic-Hierarchy.org:
https://www.catholic-hierarchy.org/bishop/bcahe.html
Luis Gerardo CABRERA HERRERA on Gcatholic.org:
https://gcatholic.org/p/24679
2009 Vatican Biographical Summary of Luis Gerardo CABRERA HERRERA (Italian):
https://press.vatican.va/content/salastampa/it/bollettino/pubblico/2009/04/20/0256/00600.html
Ecuadorian Bishops’ Conference bio of Luis Gerardo CABRERA HERRERA:
https://www.conferenciaepiscopal.ec/directiva/mons-luis-gerardo-cabrera-herrera-ofm.html
1909 Catholic Encyclopedia article on the Order of Friars Minor (often called the Franciscans), “OFM”:
https://www.newadvent.org/cathen/06281a.htm
NOTE: If I recall correctly (and it’s possible I don’t, this was done in stages), free Adobe Podcast AI was used to help clean up some of the audio on this episode, as my setup and voice were both struggling this recording session but the show must go on. https://podcast.adobe.com/enhance#
TRANSCRIPT
Hello everyone, welcome to Cardinal Numbers, a rexypod reviewing and ranking all the Cardinals of the Catholic Church from the Catacombs to Kingdom Come. Today we’re looking at our fourth bishop from the list of new Cardinals Pope Francis will be officially elevating on December 7th 2024.
Luis Gerardo CABRERA HERRERA was born on October 11th, 1955 in Azogues, Ecuador, which is a bit southwest of the middle of the country, due west of the western terminus of the fascinatingly consistent curve of the southeast edge of the national border. I’m sure there’s a story there, but it’s not a story for us today. He is actually our first Ecuadorian Cardinal, so I’ll take a moment to note that Catholicism in Ecuador has generally followed the mold of Catholicism in Latin America more broadly, with the Church being established with the cooperation of Spanish colonial authorities and becoming the official religion up till the very tail end of the 19th century, when in 1899 liberal reforms began that significantly impacted the relationship between the Ecuadorian state and Church. Today a strong majority of Ecuadorians still identify as Catholic, though a smaller percentage than in generations past, and it seems the numbers are continuing to decline, though we’re still talking about three out of every four Ecuadorians identifying as Catholic, and I say about because I saw numbers ranging from 69% to 94%, perhaps the most impressive range yet.Anyways, Luis was drawn to the Franciscan Order early, studying at their minor seminaries first in Azogues and then in the Ecuadorian capital of Quito. He entered their novitiate while still a teenager, then got his philosophy and theology degrees from the Pontifical Catholic University of Ecuador, followed by a licentiate and then finally a doctorate in philosophy from the Antonianum, a Franciscan university in Rome named after Saint Anthony of Padua, an early Franciscan saint best known as the guy you pray to when you can’t find your keys.
Luis however was not lost, knowing where he was meant to be, and he took his final vows as a Franciscan in 1982 at the age of 26. The following year, he was ordained as a priest for the order, becoming Fr Cabrera. In the 80s, Fr. Cabrera served in several roles for the order including master of novices and member of the provincial council. The years 1990 to 1994 are listed on one source as “studies in Rome”, so it was probably then when he actually got his doctorate, given the normal timing of such things.Within a few years of his return to Ecuador, Fr. Cabrera was directing not one but two institutions for the Franciscan order, first the Franciscan Studies Center of Ecuador, and then simultaneously the “Cardenal Bernardino Echeverría” Philosophical-Theological Institute, named after a Cardinal who was, notably, still alive at that point. I’m not sure whether the seminary already had the name or added it later. Anyways, I can’t get sidetracked with other Cardinals– Fr Cabrera also served as a professor at that institute, specifically professor of Franciscan Theology and Spirituality, and of course, more besides. In 2003, after serving as Provincial Minister of the Franciscans in Ecuador and the Executive Secretary of the Ecumenism Commission of the Ecuadorian Episcopal Conference, he went to Rome to serve as General Councillor of the Order of Franciscan Friars Minor and Head of the Franciscan Provinces of Latin America and the Caribbean.By this point, his titles have gotten to the stage where you’re probably not too surprised to hear his phone ringing. Specifically, his white phone. Ring ring, it’s Pope Benedict, calling to make him Archbishop of Cuenca. That’s right, straight to Archbishop for Fr Cabrera, or rather, for Archbishop Cabrera, once he received his episcopal consecration in July 2009. Cuenca probably felt like home to Cabrera, namely because it was home; he was born in the Diocese of Cuenca a couple years before it was promoted to an Archdiocese, and though he was very clearly running in Franciscan circles for his career up to this point, still, there’s no place like home.Cuenca’s Catholic population didn’t exactly boom when he was there, and the number of priests dropped so precipitously from 2013 to 2016 I double checked to make sure the boundaries of the Archdiocese hadn’t changed, but apparently none of that concerned Pope Francis enough to stop him from transferring Archbishop Cabrera to the nearby Archdiocese of Guayaquil, making him spiritual head of Ecuador’s main port and largest city, and yes, Quito is not the largest city in Ecuador, though it is where most of Ecuador's Cardinals have historically served. But the fact that there has never been a Cardinal as Archbishop of Guayaquil didn’t stop Pope Francis from adding Archbishop Cabrera to his list of new Cardinals last month. And yes, well-informed hypothetical pedant, Bernardino Echeverría–the one the institute was named after–was nearly an exception, but by the time of his elevation he was no longer Archbishop of Guayaquil.In any event, whether Pope Francis keeps Cardinal-Elect Cabrera in Guayaquil or moves him to Quito, or does something else entirely, remains to be seen. For now we do know for sure that Ecuador is expected to have a Cardinal-elector for the first time in over a decade, ending a fairly significant drought for a country with its profile and Catholic demographics.
After he is officially elevated on December 7th, Luis Gerardo Cardinal CABRERA HERRERA will be eligible to participate in future conclaves until he turns 80 in 2035.
Today’s episode is part of Cardinal Numbers, and there will be another one of the new Cardinals next week. Thank you for listening, God bless you all! Thanks, Joe!
Monday Dec 02, 2024
Monday Dec 02, 2024
Hello everyone,
As you know if you catch my personal updates, and apparently you do because you're listening to one now, I got a new job recently. And it's been amazing I'm finally putting my library degree to use in the service of my hometown. I run mobile operations, so I schedule the bookmobile- or rather, I schedule the Mobile Library, since Marketing wants to make sure people know it's more than just books. I drive it too, along with an amazing team. Last week I pulled up to my kid's school as the hero in a slight modification of the kindergarten dream I had of being a bus driver.
I--we--had very high hopes for this change, and it's exceeded them.
One area that's been especially positive is work-life balance. I've gone from over an hour commute to five minutes tops. I come home for lunch most days, and hang out with Mrs. Popeular History and my preschooler while the other kids are either at school or napping.
At the end of the day, I come home and spend time with my family. I used to never quite know when I was coming home, because there was always a chance I'd wind up with a customer, and it would be my job to try and sell them a bed to keep the lights on. Now, I help preschoolers get books, and have weekends off. Weekends off! What, like a normal person? I can't tell you how much of an improvement the schedule has been. I even have more time for podcasting, now that I'm no longer commuting.
Or at least, I thought I'd have more time for podcasting.
In reality, the more time has gone straight into the family bucket, which is where it needs to be. It turns out that now that I no longer work most evenings and weekends, I can be home and active when my kids are.
Life is good, except for one thing.
The podcast.
Look, it's not you, it's me.
I've said from the beginning that family takes priority over this. It has to, and what's more, it should. And that's not a sad note, I can't tell you how much everything has benefitted from there being more proper daddy days on the calendar.
But this one piece isn't how I thought things would go. I'm still coming to terms with it. The plan was for the podcast to continue uninterrupted. Yet, here we are, with, it would be generous to call it a shaky release schedule, and it's only going to get shakier, at least for a good while. You're going to get *something* from me next weekend in connection with the new Consistory, perhaps just the next Cardinal, and on February 8th I'll be speaking at Intelligent Speech online, so, you know, get your tickets today (intelligentspeechonline.com). But I'm not in a position to give a more specific forecast than that, except to say stay tuned to Pontifacts for cool stuff on that front.
Popeular History isn't done, I've got more things prepped for the podcast than I ever did in years past, including some collaborations, which, my podcasting friends, thank you for bearing with me.
It's time for me to embrace my role as dad, first and foremost.
[Clip from Cat's in the Cradle by Harry Chapin]Thank you for listening, God bless you all!
Wednesday Feb 05, 2025
Wednesday Feb 05, 2025
Reminder that I will be speaking in multiple settings at the online Intelligent Speech conference this Saturday, Feb 8th. Get your tickets at intelligentspeechonline.com and use the promo code Popeular for a special discount. See you there!
Friday Apr 18, 2025
Friday Apr 18, 2025
Not gonna transcript this, but bottom line enjoy your Easter when it comes, hiatus is continuing, current target for getting back to regular schedule is 6/29/25 (5th anniversary of the show). There will still be some new collab stuff coming out including a special on the fascinating 1769 conclave where the Holy Roman Emperor showed up in person while pretending to not be the Emperor, which will be on the History of Aotearoa New Zealand feed of all places: https://open.spotify.com/show/6VnykMReqvxl9QJMmzlN28?si=cb53cd96a14e4618
Tuesday Apr 22, 2025
Tuesday Apr 22, 2025
THANKS
Thanks to all you listeners, and to those who have supported me through the years and especially through this most recent hiatus. Also thanks to Marco of the Storia d’Italia podcast (https://italiastoria.com/) for giving authenticity to the Italian quote–which, incidentally, I believe I mistranslated somewhat: It’s normally rendered as “when one Pope dies, we make another”, giving additional bluntness to the meaning.IMAGE CREDIT: By Korea.net / Korean Culture and Information Service (Photographer name), CC BY-SA 2.0, https://commons.wikimedia.org/w/index.php?curid=34828249 (Via Wikipedia)TRANSCRIPT
Welcome to Popeular History: History through Pope Colored Glasses. My name is Gregg, and this is another special housekeeping episode.Vice-Pope Mrs Popeular History and I have a running joke about my superpower, namely that when I say something, it automatically becomes not true. Which, I know, isn’t a great power for a fact-based podcaster to have, I mean, there’s a reason I haven’t told you about this ability of mine earlier. But you can see it at work here, with me announcing just days ago that Popeular History’s hiatus would carry on through at least June, and now, well, I assume this isn’t news to you since you’re the sort of person to tune into this sort of show and it’s been a day, but Pope Francis died early this morning. May he rest in peace, and may he find more mercy than anyone deserves in the Court of the Just Judge, as we would all hope to find for ourselves, and as we should all hope for others.
In light of that, I’d like to announce that I am revoking my recent proclamation of continued hiatus, meaning yes, Popeular History is back, at least for the duration of the present Sede Vacante, as long as I can physically manage it and my efforts continue to receive both nihil obstats and imprimaturs from Vice-Pope Mrs Popeular History, who, as it turns out, does *not* automatically succeed Francis as Pope. Apparently, there’s a whole different process for that. Who knew?Anyways, here’s what to expect. First, as much as I legitimately hate it, it is time to say goodbye to Pope Francis. You will be seeing an obituary on this feed soon, and there will be more tributes and reflections on his papacy coming now that it has concluded. Catholics do not pray only for the living, it’s important to pray for the dead as well, so I would encourage you to pray for Pope Francis to find rest in God’s merciful embrace if you’re willing to pray. We’ll conclude this episode with a brief Ave Maria–known in English as a Hail Mary, and I’ll go ahead and do an English version as well–for that purpose, for Pope Francis’ repose.After some appropriate reflection on Pope Francis and his legacy, there will be the matter of laying him to rest. Once I know when the funeral will be, information that will likely become available after the first General Congregation tomorrow morning, I will make every effort to plan for some form of livestream coverage, possibly as part of a larger group. The general expectation is that the funeral will be this weekend, I’ll keep you all posted. As of now, Francis’ body is already in an oak coffin in preparation for lying in state, and the Papal apartments have been sealed with wax as per custom. Within the next week, Pope Francis’ remains will ultimately make their way to a storeroom in the Basilica of Santa Maria Maggiore, or in English, Saint Mary Major. And I just have to acknowledge that “when I go out, stick me in the closet” is *very* on brand for Pope Francis. Though it’s also worth noting that it’s not like there’s you know, a lot of free space for dead popes in the highest tier of Rome’s churches, so even if it weren’t as on brand for him, well, needs must and all that.
Anyways, after Pope Francis is laid to rest in an old closet, any reluctance to talk about the upcoming conclave on my part will vanish. Granted, lots of folks are already taking bets and asking for my lines and predictions, but, you know, I’m not planning to be focusing on that so much this week. This is the time for goodbyes.However, as the Italians say, “Morto un papa se ne fa un altro”: “when the Pope dies, we make a new one” (Marco recording). And so next week, after the funeral, I’ll begin to look in earnest at the conclave process, including looking at the Cardinals to hopefully get a first glimpse of the new Pope. Ideally, of course, I’d love to be able to point to an existing episode on whoever is elected when the time comes. And I’ve got a decent chance of being able to do that thanks to Cardinal Numbers: so far we’ve talked about over 50 Cardinals on this feed, and I’ve got dozens more basically researched and scripted, who were awaiting just a bit of touching up before recording and editing closer to their release date. Which actually sounds REALLY promising when you consider the theoretical cap of 120 Cardinal-Electors you’re going to hear more about soon in the context of the fact that there are currently more Cardinal Electors than that and no apparent provisions for dealing with that situation. Bottom line, of the 135 current Cardinal electors, I’ve only got about 30 that I haven’t gone in-depth on in some fashion. To be clear, I’m not going to have every Cardinal elector covered in time. It’s just not possible with work and family continuing apace. But you’re going to see a lot from me in the coming weeks, especially once we’re officially in Conclave mode after the funeral.
Which brings us back to where started this chat. Let’s close tonight by praying for Pope Francis’ repose, first in Latin, then in English. I’ll be doing both parts of the Hail Mary, since Vice-Pope Mrs Popeular History went to bed a while ago.In nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritui Sancti amen:
Áve María, grátia pléna, Dóminus técum. Benedícta tu in muliéribus, et benedíctus frúctus véntris túi, Iésus. Sáncta María, Máter Déi, óra pro nóbis peccatóribus, nunc et in hóra mórtis nóstrae. Amen.
Hail Mary, full of grace, the Lord is with thee; blessed art thou amongst women, and blessed is the fruit of thy womb, Jesus. Holy Mary, Mother of God, pray for us sinners, now and at the hour of our death. Amen.
In the name of the Father, and of the Son, and of the Holy Spirit, amen.
Tuesday Apr 22, 2025
Tuesday Apr 22, 2025
TRANSCRIPTWelcome to Popeular History, History through Pope-colored glasses. My name is Gregg.
As you know, Pope Francis passed away yesterday, and the Catholic Church is in a period of transition. I spoke about my podcast plans for the present sede vacante yesterday, so if you want more on that look there. Today I’d like to talk a bit about Pope Francis.
Jorge Mario Bergoglio, who became Pope Francis, knew all along that he was a man, but he also knew that people–literally billions around the world by the end of his life–wanted him to be more than a man to them. Not just Catholics, but Protestants, Jews, Muslims, Agnostics, Atheists and the great many who don’t know exactly what to make of all the theology stuff or who decided long ago it doesn’t fundamentally matter to them: across the varied spectrum of humanity Pope Francis caught the attention not only of the faithful and their varied spiritual siblings and cousins but also of the faithless and the hopeless, both inside and outside the Church.
From where I sit–and I’m no authority but here we are, you’ve tuned in to hear me for some reason–much of Pope Francis’ impact was actually on secular attitudes towards the Church. He knew how to capture imaginations, especially the nebulous imagination of the media.
Having broadly sympathetic coverage from the secular media may have been a blessing for Church leaders more broadly, but it left plenty of questions–many by design, as he famously loved to make a mess and would encourage others to do the same. Because doing the right thing often gets complicated, and messy, and uncomfortable. The fundamental question arising from this willingness to make a mess was simple: where was Pope Francis taking the Church?
With so many of his biggest fans either outside the Church or openly dissenting within it, it was a fair question.
One of Pope Francis’ refrains–todos, todos, todos, “everyone, everyone, everyone” played out against the background of a divided faith and world. Everyone might be welcome according to Pope Francis, but how could everyone find what they were looking for if they decided to come in? No matter what, whether by action or inaction, he was going to frustrate some.
In the end, those looking for substantial change would be substantially disappointed. And yet, those looking for no change at all would be disappointed as well. Fundamentally, Pope Francis was a moderate force seeking to keep disparate factions together, and he was willing to use ambiguity to do so. He wasn’t always ambiguous, in fact he wasn’t always *anything* so much as a man who loved to surprise and who understood well the impact of such surprises. He did have some misfires, but in his honor for today I won’t dwell on what I think those were. On the whole, I’m willing to describe myself as a fan, though I’m not sure that’s saying much, since I’ve been unironically a fan of every Pope in my lifetime. Yes, even that one.
In addition to his successes and the occasional misfire, Pope Francis had his turn managing a number of longstanding largely intractable issues where the Vatican famously thinking in centuries applies. No real conclusions were reached in the Church’s strained relationships with China and the Orthodox, with perhaps mild improvement being seen in both, and it really is a shame we did not have the chance to see any fruit of the celebrations for the 1700th anniversary of Nicaea that Patriarch Bartholomew had been planning with Pope Francis right from the beginning of his papacy, which were set to finally take place next month. Perhaps his successor will keep that commitment, but that’s a topic for another day. Meanwhile, Pope Francis’ pontificate will most likely be remembered as a period of rapprochement when it comes to LGBT individuals–ok, perhaps not so much the T, but I think it’s fair to say he put in some real effort in outreach to the marginalized there and elsewhere. On the perennial topic of curial reform, he did a lot, but I don’t know that he really fundamentally changed a lot, with one exception:
I would argue Pope Francis’ most significant reform came with his promotion of women to positions of real power within the Church. Now, I respect the right of anyone, especially any woman, to laugh me out of the room when I say that, with him at best politely listening to many women’s concerns. BUT, normalizing the presence of women within the body that nominates bishops without facing significant pushback thus making it extremely likely to stick, that was in my opinion quite a feat, and he didn’t stop there, ultimately capping off his promotion of women with his designation of Sr. Raffaella Petrini as the President of the Governorate of Vatican City State. Basically the Vatican’s Prime Minister. Nor do I think he was done there when his time came, as all previous holders of that title had been Cardinals, and, well, I wouldn’t put it past him.
However, with his passing, all that and more, from the inside baseball liturgy wars to the broad sweep of ecumenism to more secular questions will be questions for his successors.
For today, let’s pray an Ave for his repose.
In nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritui Sancti, amen.
Áve María, grátia pléna, Dóminus técum. Benedícta tu in muliéribus, et benedíctus frúctus véntris túi, Iésus. Sáncta María, Máter Déi, óra pro nóbis peccatóribus, nunc et in hóra mórtis nóstrae. Amen.
In nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritui Sancti, amen.
Thursday Apr 24, 2025
Thursday Apr 24, 2025
Spoiler alert: the new name is “Popeular History: A Catholic History of the World”. So not much different. Unless you’re a search engine. Are you a search engine?Also yeah, I said history twice. I like history. TRANSCRIPT
Welcome to Popeular History: History through Pope-Colored Glasses. Or perhaps I should say “welcome to Popeular History: A Catholic History of the World”? Hard to tell.No, I’m not changing the tagline, but I have changed the official name of the show, primarily for SEO, that is, Search Engine Optimization. As you probably know because you clearly like learning about a lot of stuff and are quite likely attractive to boot as listeners to this show, it’s helpful to have key words and phrases in your title that can help search engines help people find your show when they Google around. “Catholic History” is a pretty darn useful phrase to have built into this show’s official name, probably more helpful than Popeular, so it’s happening. Of course, Popeular still narrows things down straight to the point as long as folks spell it right, plus I like the pun, so the short version is staying as is: this is Popeular History. But it’s also Popeular History: A Catholic History of the World, at least if a search engine is asking.And no, I’m not going to run wild with things and call this Popeular History: A Catholic History of the World: Popes Pope Papal Cardinals Cardinal Church Bishops Bishop Conclave Suburbicarian Pizzaballa. Probably. I’m definitely probably not going to do that.What I AM definitely going to do is make up for an admittedly fairly lame release today with something more substantial tomorrow. What exactly it will be depends on what editing I can get done around my day job and family stuff and two more collaborations that are also all carrying on tomorrow. And if it tomorrow’s stuff does end up being conclave connected, I hope you can forgive me getting ahead a bit. Oh, that reminds me, let’s pray for Pope Francis’ repose.In nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritui Sancti, amen.
Áve María, grátia pléna,
Dóminus técum.
Benedícta tu in muliéribus,
et benedíctus frúctus véntris túi, Iésus.
Sáncta María, Máter Déi,
óra pro nóbis peccatóribus,
nunc et in hóra mórtis nóstrae. Amen.
In nomine Patri, et Filii, et Spiritui Sancti, amen.
Friday Apr 25, 2025
Friday Apr 25, 2025
Apologies for getting ahead of things, but this is something I have ready, which really helps it jump ahead in line. Plus I want you to know how to join in Adopt-A-Cardinal fun, starting on Saturday!
Thanks to Bry and Fry from Pontifacts for joining me to talk about about 135+ cardinals all at once!
Friday Apr 25, 2025
Friday Apr 25, 2025
Bonus facts to make up for the earlier error: when the 1378 conclave rolled around, it had been 74 years since a Papal conclave taken place in Rome. Many of the participating Cardinals hadn't been born yet, with the only reasonably confirmed exception being the aged Pierre Flandrin, who had been a toddler.
Testament of the Holy Father Francis:https://www.vatican.va/content/francesco/en/speeches/2025/april/documents/20250421-testamento-francesco.html
Principal source for bonus facts:
https://cardinals.fiu.edu/conclave-xiv.htm
Monday Apr 28, 2025
Monday Apr 28, 2025
Not a spelling mistake, a pun. I do those. Search up "dubia letter" if you're scrathing your head over the title.
LINKSCatholic Herald coverage of Cardinal Müller’s church split comments:
https://thecatholicherald.com/cardinal-muller-warns-church-risks-split-if-orthodox-pope-not-chosen/
Apostolic Constitution Romano Pontifici Eligendo (1975):
https://www.vatican.va/content/paul-vi/it/apost_constitutions/documents/hf_p-vi_apc_19751001_romano-pontifici-eligendo.html
CNN coverage of Cardinal Becciu situation:
https://www.cnn.com/2025/04/23/europe/cardinal-becciu-conclave-controversy-intl/index.html
Cruxnow coverage of Sister Brambilla situation:
https://cruxnow.com/vatican/2025/04/francis-legacy-lives-as-top-vatican-woman-gets-accidental-invite-to-conclave
Pontifacts + Popeular History Livestream of Pope Francis’ funeral (join Adopt-A-Cardinal in the comments!):https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Cl8ISMTqMA
Novena to Mary, Undoer of Knots:
https://www.theholyrosary.org/maryundoerknots/
TRANSCRIPT
Welcome to Popeular History. My name is Gregg and this is another Conclave special: “Raising the Alarm: Schism by Dubias Means?”
Last Thursday, The Catholic Herald ran an article titled “Cardinal Müller warns Church risks split if ‘orthodox’ pope not chosen.”
Specifically, the Catholic Herald quotes the former head of the Congregation for the Doctrine of the Faith as saying “a heretic pope who changes every day depending on what the mass media is saying would be catastrophic.” Which, I hope he’s answering a question like “would a heretic pope who changes every day depending on what the mass media is saying be catastrophic”? Because unless that idea is being planted in his mind by the interviewer, it would seem that such a dire scenario is something Cardinal Müller is actively worried about. And if it’s something he’s actively worried about, well that’s got its own gravity.
Bottom line, the article raises the potential specter of a schism, a split, in the Church, presumably some sort of major antipope situation where some of the Cardinals decide to reject the conclusion and go off and set up a rival Pope. We’ve seen antipopes before many times in Church history, though it’s been a while since there’s been a major one, recognized by a significant number of Catholics, say 5 percent. Or heck, even 1 percent. Longtime Pontifacts listeners will recall Bry and Fry actually interviewed Pope Michael, a modern antipope, back in 2022 shortly before his death. Oh, and thanks recent livestream viewer "Nogah f" for asking their antipope question with a handy definition of “serious” antipope accompanying, that was useful.
Attentive listeners will probably know that I’m concerned about the possibility of schism myself, and if the Herald headline about Cardinal Müller is correct, I’m not alone. The reality is that even if the headline is wrong, I am comfortable saying it would be naïve to conclude that the possibility of schism isn’t present in the minds of most Cardinals. After all, fundamentally, preventing schism is what the conclave process and ultimately the College of Cardinals is all about. Really, you could take it further: preventing schism is what the Papacy is about, uniting Christians under one clear umbrella. Wait, no, preventing schism is what Christianity is about, uniting humanity in Christ. Wait, no, ending the schism between God and humanity caused by the Fall is what Christ is about. You get the idea: Schism bad.
Given that there seems to be more concern about the possibility of schism than usual, as we ramp up towards the conclave, it’s worth asking what should be done to reduce the possibility and severity of such a break. Obviously it’s pretty presumptuous of me to be talking about this, but I haven’t seen it elsewhere, and it needs to be discussed. There are steps that should be taken publicly before the conclave to resolve ambiguities and close loopholes, and I haven’t seen them taken yet, which has me a bit nervous, but given the nature of the situation, well, it may simply be that fundamental differences will remain. I’ll update the show notes if and when I see updates relating to any of these things, this is obviously pretty cutting edge in terms of events coverage and there’s a lot going on.
Ok, let me lay this out. First, there are a surprising number of issues relating to who is actually a Cardinal-Elector in this conclave: an unusually high number of points of discussion, but not an unprecedented number, to be clear, since you need to work hard to find truly unprecedented things in Church history.
Second, there is a notably strong traditionalist camp who, if I may read between the lines in Müller’s statement, is prepared to reject any Pope they do not consider sufficiently orthodox.
Let’s tackle the first topic first. Probably the single most significant source of uncertainty in this election is the canonical limit of 120 Cardinal Electors, given that this will be the first Conclave to exceed the limit. In fact, there will be more Cardinal-Electors in this conclave than there have ever been, though that may be misleading, after all, how many people tended to take part in the Papal elections of the first millennium where not only the clergy but the people of Rome participated? Rome was smaller then, but it would be difficult to believe it wasn’t a healthy crowd. The word “thousands” comes to mind. And yes, I too wonder how many women were in the crowds on those occasions when Popes were elected by acclamation. But then I think of how if it were up to individual voting in any form, even the most popular elections in the Hellenistic world appeared to be sausage fests. The Greco-Roman milieu gave us the Patriarchy after all, and as they say, the past is a foreign country, they do things differently there.
In any event, the 120 cap being broken isn’t too crazy a precedent, as it was only established in 1975 and was ignored at times by two of Pope Francis’ traditionally-minded predecessors, Pope Saint John Paul II and Pope Benedict XVI.
But it’s also worth noting that Pope Francis ignored the rule so aggressively you might be tempted to think he misunderstood it. Did he think it was a minimum rather than a maximum? By my count, when Francis announced what would turn out to be his final batch of new Cardinals on October 6th of last year, there were already 121 new Cardinals kicking around, and it was only the untimely death of Spanish Cardinal Miguel Ángel Ayuso Guixot that made sure there were fewer than 120 electors when the time came for the official elevation of the new batch. During the waiting period, one of the announced new Cardinals–Bishop Syukur of Bogor, Indonesia–declined the honor, and, as if to underscore how determined he was to have a very full College of Cardinals, Pope Francis elevated the Archbishop of Naples in his place, bringing the total number of Cardinal-Electors to a record high 140, which went mostly down to 135 by the time of Pope Francis’ death last Monday due to Cardinals reaching the age of 80 and automatically losing their elector status. And yes, you heard that right, the Catholic Church of all places is one of the few organizations in the world with a hard cap on the age of electors. Oh, and yes, I did say the number went *mostly* down, more on that later.
In reality, the Pope is an absolute monarch. Sure, the Apostolic Constitution Romano Pontifici Eligendo exists and caps the number of Cardinal-Electors at 120 in Paragraph 33, but it’s not like that was news to Pope Francis when he was blatantly disregarding It throughout his pontificate, and it’s not like absolute monarchs are bound by constitutions–that’s pretty specifically what makes them absolute monarchs. In short, it was a bit of a non-issue for him. And I also think it was an occasion where he decided to make things uncomfortable for the cardinals who he critiqued for being too comfortable early on in his pontificate. He famously told people to make a bit of a mess in the Church, and here he made a bit of a mess with the constitution of the college compared to the, uh, well, the Constitution of the College. I think he wanted the Cardinals to *have to * figure it out, have to be a little uncomfortable with rigid rules.
Anyways, in the words of an analysis kindly provided by Gabe over at the Papability Index over on X, quote “The 120 rule is a matter of Ecclesiastical Law, not Divine Law, so the Pope can dispense of it as he sees fit. Those ‘extra’ Cardinals have just as many rights as the 120 since the Pope’s powers, privileges, and appointments are unassailable as long as he’s operating within the confines of Divine Law.” end quote
That makes sense to me, but constitutions are more of an issue for constitutional bodies, which, at the end of the day, is what the College of Cardinals is. I hate to say it, but I am definitely of the opinion that the College needs to address this discrepancy somehow, as this is a loophole that could be used to undermine the legitimacy of the next Pope. Perhaps the safest course would be to ensure the final vote is lopsided enough that a ⅔ majority would be cleared even discounting the “extra” electors, however many there end up being.
Really what I think may happen is that this issue will go unaddressed during the sede vacante but may be used by a dissatisfied faction as an excuse to refuse to recognize the result. If this happens, it will be readily identifiable as an excuse because if the faction were really only interested in the legitimacy of the election, they would be objecting sooner, like right now, before any votes take place. To allow the conclave to proceed without flagging legitimate concerns about its, well, legitimacy, would be startlingly irresponsible for any Cardinal, and to follow that up with only rejecting the result and declaring an antipope only after the fact would expose the cynical motives and manipulative nature of such an act. I genuinely hope that doesn’t happen, but now is not the time for me to sit back and say nothing about the apparent possibility.
There are other smaller-scale eligibility questions with similar solutions and potentially similar outcomes, such as the updated official birthdays of a couple of the African cardinals that have had the result of keeping them eligible. I want to be clear that I, personally, am not questioning their eligibility, nor is this breaking news, this is as publicly available information as the 120 elector limit and everything else I’ve been talking about. But all legitimately concerned about avoiding schism should raise their objections now. Any Cardinals planning to toss the game board only after they lose need to know that their motives are clear and that this is not a game. And yeah, in case you can’t tell, I have a particular concern about this. But it’s a general problem, so there’s no need to put my case into territory where I could be accused of ad hominem accusations by naming names. Let’s just say late challenges here would be doubias at best.
There’s also the case of Cardinal Becciu, who as I understand it, resigned the rights and privileges of the Cardinalate back in 2020 but who now appears to be arguing that participating in a Conclave wasn’t among those rights and privileges that he resigned. I do not expect the other Cardinals to find his arguments convincing.
Finally, we have the case of Sister Simona Bambrilla, a female head of one of the Vatican’s Dicasteries and more importantly *not a Cardinal* who was accidentally invited to participate in the Cardinals-only general congregations that began last week. I don’t expect that to be an actual issue, but I thought it worth mentioning both for a bit of levity and as a reminder of the way women are kept out of places where they really honestly should be if you ask me. Whoops, uh, there went that levity.
Ok, so that’s my TED talk on the surprisingly fuzzy boundaries marking of the participants in the upcoming conclave. Eventually the “Extra Omnes” will be said and the doors will be locked “Con clave”--with a key, and, well, the “speak now or forever hold your peace” window will have passed at that point. Unless there are significant developments before then, I anticipate only Cardinal Becciu will have raised concerns, and then only for his case if my reading is right. Pro tip: I’m giving plenty of qualifiers when talking about Becciu due to what I perceive as a high risk of litigation. Just in case that wasn’t obvious.
Anyways, let’s shift gears to the second of topic of concern I brought up at the start of this: Cardinals prepared to reject any Pope they do not consider sufficiently orthodox. And really, I can broaden that out to any Catholic prepared to reject the Pope, because the underlying scenario is the same, whether you’re a Cardinal or a catechumen. If you reject the Pope, you’re not Catholic. Union with the Pope is what defines Catholicism. I know there are those who disagree, I would hope they are not Cardinals of the Catholic Church. They can go play for Saint Louis if they want to be Cardinals while rejecting the Pope. The idea that a Pope can be deposed for heresy has been brought up and refuted time and again throughout Church history. If I need to work up an episode on that specifically I can, but the reality is putting this together has been a lot of work for one night, following up on the two and a half hours I spent livestreaming Francis’ funeral at 4 am yesterday. Oh, yes, so if you’re looking for yesterday’s episode, by the way, look on the Pontifacts feed youtube and get ready to Adopt-A-Cardinal in the comments of the video!In any case, getting away from the self-plug and back to as serious as I have ever been and then some, I’ll say this: I will accept whoever the next Pope is as Pope until they die or resign. You’d think Cardinals would be prepared to do this as well, but I’ve developed a degree of doubt.I want to conclude this episode by encouraging you to join the Vice-Pope and I in a novena to Mary, Undoer of Knots. As you may know, a novena is a sort of nine-day prayer-a-thon for a specific intention: in this case for a successful conclave, defined as one that finds the Cardinals and the whole Church united under the new Pope. As you may also know, Our Lady, Undoer of Knots was a favorite devotion of the late Pope Francis, himself a noted fan of Our Lady.Since the novena includes a complete Rosary, and it’s quite late, I’m not going to accompany you through the actual prayers as we go, just encourage you to consider joining Vice-Pope Mrs Popeular History and I on it in the coming days (and yeah, you can start it whenever, it’s not like we have to be on the same timetable or you can’t have a similar intention after the conclave wraps up).Fair warning, when I asked Mrs. Popeular History if she was up for this she said, and I quote, “sure, But it’s known to end up with things worse before they get better lol”So on that note, thank you all for listening, God bless you all!